LIST ARCHIVE
These are the previous submissions to the list in the order they were received.
To join the A/FND mailing list:
send to: imailsrv@libcom.com
In the body of the letter:
subscribe afnd Your_full_name
(Example) - subscribe afnd Stu Sandhaus
To submit to the list send to: afnd@libcom.com
============================
NEXT MESSAGE
============================
From: "Stu Sandhaus"
To: afnd@libcom.com
Date sent: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 06:37:25 -0500
Subject: (Fwd) Re: AF/ND
Priority: normal
Send reply to: afnd@libcom.com
Hi List,
Got this great response from Bill Pratt at draglist.com. He was
kind enough to help promote our cause by doing this. You can
check it out at:
http://www.draglist.com
Click on DRAG RACING STORY OF THE DAY (12/26/01) or check
the archives if you missed it.
Stu
AF/ND in 2003 (or 04)
------- Forwarded message follows -------
Send reply to: "draglist"
From: "draglist"
To:
Subject: Re: AF/ND
Date sent: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 00:46:34 -0500
Organization: www.draglist.com
Hi Stu. Nice hearing from you again. I'm putting this up as the story of
the day at draglist.com for 12/26.
Thanks and good luck with your quest.
Bill Pratt
www.draglist.com
------- End of forwarded message -------
============================
NEXT MESSAGE
============================
From: "Stu Sandhaus"
To: afnd@libcom.com
Date sent: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 08:44:21 -0500
Subject: Nitronic Blogger
Priority: normal
Send reply to: afnd@libcom.com
Hi List,
Thanks again to Bill Pratt (draglist.com). He made an entry on the
Blogger about our AF/ND project.
http://nitronic.com/blogger/
Stu
============================
NEXT MESSAGE
============================
From: "Stu Sandhaus"
To: afnd@libcom.com
Date sent: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 08:50:12 -0500
Subject: (Fwd) Re: AF/ND
Priority: normal
Send reply to: afnd@libcom.com
Hi List,
Got another great response...this one from Jim Becktel
(nitrofan.com) I'm sure he'll be doing something good to help.
Stu
------- Forwarded message follows -------
From: JimisCNC@aol.com
Date sent: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 10:18:32 EST
Subject: Re: AF/ND
To: stu19@libcom.com
Dear Stu -
fits in good to the only all nitro website on the net!
thanks for your email.
I'm down in fla on christmas holiday right now, but this is what I
like to do, so gimme a few days.
you're cause deserves my attn.
thanks for going with dave tuttle, he makes the best looking front
motor cars in the nation rght now! and hes a real good guy
jim
------- End of forwarded message -------
============================
NEXT MESSAGE
============================
From: "Stu Sandhaus"
To: afnd@libcom.com
Date sent: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 16:18:35 -0500
Subject: (Fwd) AF/ND and IHRA
Send reply to: stu19@libcom.com
Copies to: stu19@libcom.com
Priority: normal
Hi List,
I sent an email to Michael Beard who is an up-and-coming player in
IHRA...he does their website work and often writes a column in their
newspaper. He's a good racer and a very bright and thoughtful guy.
I'm sure his thoughts about this are worth considering. Here's some
of his thoughts on the AF/ND project.
Stu
------- Forwarded message follows -------
Send reply to: "Michael Beard"
From: "Michael Beard"
To:
Subject: Re: Met you at Quaker City
Date sent: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 15:52:30 -0500
Organization: IHRA
> a good idea..."worth pursuing". He said "the way to do it" was to
> send a letter to Curt Lashure (Div 1 Tech Director and head of Comp
> rules committee) at his office in Warrington PA....with my thoughts of
> what the class rules should be, why it might be popular, how it might
> benefit the sport, etc.
Curt's a good guy. I met a lot of the NHRA Division 1 guys when I
was
running Stock eliminator with them in '99. I also set up the original
site for them, and let them take over. All the Div. 1 staff should have
contact info on the site, at www.nhradiv1.com When composing your
letter, they hit it pretty close as to what points you should address. In
another view, the factors to talk about are how the class would impact 1)
racers 2) fans 3) tracks and 4) sponsors. That's the four cornerstones
that IHRA lives by.
> I posted on "Header Flames" (nitronic.com - a website heavy into
Excellent! You're on the right track then! Cole Coonce definitely has the
hotbed of nostalgia nitromaniacs at Nitronic Research! That was one of
the first drag racing websites out there, and still one of the coolest.
> I realize you are a young man and
> probably not all that interested in nostalgia racing/front engine
> dragsters/Nitromethane. However, I've read and enjoyed many
Young, but I still have a great appreciation for nostalgia cars! I
love them! I've often wondered how they could fit into our program as
well. I don't think that it's the right time for them in IHRA, as we
already have a very stout and concentrated show, but it's something that
will always be in the back of my mind should the right time arise. In
NHRA, you've already got a foothold in Comp Eliminator, and I thinkthat
even just the A/ND cars helped the class a great deal. The Modified
Eliminator class in IHRA hasn't done so well, however, and they're down to
National events only next year. It's hard for people to justify running
such cars in bracket mode. There's little parity in the class, and it has
yet to be fixed. Comp is just now regaining some semblance of health.
> (so far) IHRA has not shown any interest in nostalgia drag racing.
> However, I would like to take a shot at submitting my ideas to
Mike Baker's the Competition and National Tech Director. He's the one to
send ideas to, at mbaker@ihra.com. I'd ask him about allowing the cars in
Modified. I'm quite certain that we're not ready to add a whole new class
(as many folks have asked us to with Pro Stock Truck).
Happy Holidays to you, Stu, and I wish you luck in your crusade!
-Michael
mbeard@ihra.com
------- End of forwarded message -------
============================
NEXT MESSAGE
============================
From: "draglist"
To:
Copies to: "Ron Johnson" ,
"Danny White"
Subject: Another view of the subject...
Date sent: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 15:30:54 -0500
Organization: www.draglist.com
Send reply to: afnd@libcom.com
Hi guys. Check out the draglist story of the day for today. Ron Johnson, a
top competitor in the currently alky version of J/FD, has a slightly
different view of how much this class would cost. His story appears at the
following link:
http://www.draglist.com/stories/SOD%20Jan%202002/SOD-010702.htm
I think he makes several valid points. Some of the thing we should head
off are computers, etc., and make it just like the old days...
Bill Pratt
www.draglist.com
www.edrags.com
============================
NEXT MESSAGE
============================
To: "'afnd@libcom.com'"
Subject: A/FD configuration suggestions
Date sent: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 08:31:02 -0600
Send reply to: afnd@libcom.com
Hi, List.
These are only preliminary thoughts, but it looks like the dialogue's
already rolling; so I'll throw this out there:
Stu, we're not as far apart as you might think in most areas. As far as
limiting it to small blocks, it was just a question, not a suggestion. My
preference is also the 426, and you'd almost have to allow aluminum blocks
for the early and late model hemis. Like you, I agree with Pulde that it
doesn't matter what block you use. Maybe late model iron heads are
readily (affordably) available again, but they were plenty scarce 20 years
ago. We ran the old Kellogg cranks (I think it was 396 C.I.) in the late
model A/fuelers in Pro Comp.-that's where the 400 C.I. limit idea came
from, but personally I wouldn't care if it was 500 C.I. Where we differ
is on the weight thing. Don Ewald said his last jr. fueler weighed 900
lbs. I ran a very low buck 190" W.B. injected car in the mid '70s that
weighed 990 lbs.soaking wet, with iron block and heads. The only pieces
on the car that weren't steel were the injector, front cover, pump, valve
covers, fuel tank, and shorty body. If a guy could put together a 1000
lb. car, I think it's just plain nuts to have to increase the total car
weight by 40-50% by adding weight to make some arbitrary minimum weight.
Make it lbs. per cubic inch (I'm sticking with 3.0 to 3.5) and the little
motors have the advantage of less weight-the big motors have the advantage
of more cubes. You could simply ban any (higher dollar) carbon
fiber/composite/titanium components and use only steel, iron, aluminum,
and magnesium (other than required NHRA safety items) just like 30 years
ago. Anything I'd want to leave off the car, such as the onboard starter,
is just a matter of keeping the thing as simple and light as possible.
Give me a good reason for hauling a starter with you down the track when a
remote starter works fine. I liked the push starts, too, but I don't
think that'll come back. I think that the amount of money people spend on
cars in the other classes is totally irrelevant, unless the idea is to
have a highest common denominator in expenses. I'm looking at this as
running the quickest, fastest car possible (flat out through the last
light) on a limited budget. Light weight and nitro are the great
equalizers. In the late '60s, 301 inch, 900 lb. cars were running high
sevens at 190 mph, high gear only, single disc clutch. Many of those cars
had "plain vanilla" engines running stock Chev. rods and heads If the
idea is to recreate the Jr. fueler, then it should be NO electronics or
computers, no onboard batteries or starters, spec. pump, single point
style mag, eight stack injector, zoomies only, 2 spd. (guess there's no
reason to rule out the autos with converters, but I'd want to use a Lenco
with a 2 disc glide) no clutch timers, and no percentage limit on fuel.
If the class were limited to all steel small blocks with stock blocks and
heads, I could live with that, too. Just don't make 'em pull a wagon load
of weight that serves no purpose other than being heavy. Like Big always
said, the key to the whole thing is simplicity.
One other concern: If this deal gets too out of hand (alloy blocks &
heads, computers, 3 speeds, etc.) it gets dangerously close to the A/FDs
in FMD or whatever they're gonna call it now. Keeping it "low buck",
these cars will still easily overshadow the Pro Stockers' performance-wise
at a fraction of the cost. I imagine NHRA will consider both those angles
when making their decision on the class.
Dave
============================
NEXT MESSAGE
============================
From: "Stu Sandhaus"
To: afnd@libcom.com
Date sent: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 13:00:55 -0500
Subject: Discussion board - afnd.net
Priority: normal
Send reply to: afnd@libcom.com
Hi List,
We're starting to see lots of discussion and ideas flying around
about our AF/ND effort....and that's a good thing. The problem is
that the discussions are taking place on several different
areas/sites of the Internet and are not tied together. What we say here
on the mail list may not be seen by HF or draglist surfers or Standard1320
members and vice-versa.
To help centralize our discussions I'm creating a quick-and-dirty
website focusing strictly on the AF/ND project. It is not a picture or
general nostalgia site. While there are several different sections, the
main function will be the DISCUSSION BOARD. This will allow postings to
be made or read....and will allow everyone to come up to speed by
reviewing past postings. You DO NOT NEED TO REGISTER to either read or
post. If you want to post, just leave the password field blank when
making your posting. The site is no where near complete (and may never
be), but the DISCUSSION BOARD is fully operational. Please feel free to
post your thoughts and ideas on the AF/ND class....also, please pass the
word that the site is online.
http://www.afnd.net
Thanks,
Stu
============================
NEXT MESSAGE
============================
From: "Dr. Wolfgang K. Mohr, MOREwithMOHR"
To:
Subject: subscription
Date sent: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 21:16:45 -0500
Send reply to: afnd@libcom.com
Hello Stu and company,
count on me!
Best,
(-: Wooolfie :-)
Dr. Wolfgang K. Mohr
German State Deputy
in South Carolina and
Motorsports Journalist
============================
NEXT MESSAGE
============================
From: ACATHY9@aol.com
Date sent: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 23:05:07 EST
Subject: 1000 lb cars are a thing of the past
To: afnd@libcom.com
Send reply to: afnd@libcom.com
I would very much like to run a real light weight car like in the old
days. John Rasumssen and my brother Gene Adams ran a blown hemi on gas in
1965-67\ and at one point the car weighed ony 1130 lbs minus driver and
weight on the front end. I am curently involved with a FED injected hemi
that runs Good Guys events and the thing weighs 1660 lbs with driver. It
just gets to me, that with transmissions, chassis strong enough to
withstand tire shake, fire bottles, clutch cans that are required today to
be legal and many other items that were not on them 35 years ago makes it
seem really hard to build em light. I think 3 to 3.5 lbs per inch is not
realistic any more. 3.9 or 4 lbs per inch seems to me the way to go based
on my most recent expierence with front engine injected nitro cars. If you
go all out, you still can build them light, but who wants to spend
thousands on carbon fiber and titanium and alloy engines which are way
more difficult to run consistantly than an all iron engine injected on
nitro. Alloy blocks are O.K. but iron heads appear to be less of a problem
especially with regards to heat whem combined with nitro and no blower.
============================
NEXT MESSAGE
============================
From: "Nman"
To:
Subject: Re: 1000 lb cars are a thing of the past
Date sent: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 00:48:46 -0500
Send reply to: afnd@libcom.com
The iron heads may turn out to be a giant pain. As soon as the motor
detonates the least bit, the cracks will start. If the cars will have to
weigh 1500-1600 lbs, then some will run aluminum heads, some will run cast
iron. A choice would be best.
============================
NEXT MESSAGE
============================
From: Stu Sandhaus
To: afnd@libcom.com
Subject: Online opinions
Send reply to: stu19@libcom.com
Date sent: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 15:03:27 -0500
Hi List,
I've added a new section to the AF/ND website. It is a form that
can be filled out in 2 minutes or less and is sort of a survey to get
opinions about what the rules of the proposed class should be. When you
hit the submit button the form is emailed to me and I'll post the results
on the site. I'm proud to say that Gene Adams was the first to take the
survey....although he did it through me, in that I had him on the phone
and filled in the answers as he gave them to me. The site is at:
http://www.afnd.net To take the survey click on: SUBMIT YOUR IDEAS To see
what others have said click on:PROPOSED CLASS RULES AND STRUCTURE Please
take a few minutes and check it out.
I must mention that I have never spoken with Gene Adams before,
but called him at his brother Gary's suggestion. Gene has always
been someone I've admired from afar...and was a bit hesitant/shy
to bother him...after all, I'm pretty much a nobody in the drag racing
world....and he IS Gene Adams!!! It was such a pleasure to talk to
him!!!...he took his time and answered all my questions, gave his opinions
and was very approachable and easy to talk to. All-in-all he just seemed
to be a nice guy.
Stu
============================
NEXT MESSAGE
============================
To:
Subject: Fw: [Standard1320] Fw: Online opinions
Date sent: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 17:05:22 -0500
Organization: www.draglist.com
Send reply to: afnd@libcom.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stan Weber"
To: "'draglist'"
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 4:25 PM
Subject: RE: [Standard1320] Fw: Online opinions
>
>
> > Stu-
> >
> > I know what you mean about being hesitant to call someone of legendary
> > status in the history of our beloved sport. Especially for some
> > personal reason (although your project seems to fit very well within
> > the
boundries
> > of something that would likely be of keen interest to Gene). Anyway,
> > several months ago I asked a question here regarding the "original"
Beebe
> > & Mulligan car. Nobody had the answer, but one of the guys supplied me
> > with Tim Beebe's number.
> >
> > Yeah, right! Like I'm gonna phone up Tim during his lunch break and
> > ask him some inane question. I'm sure he would have been most
> > gracious, but
I
> > never could work up the nerve. You are to be congratulated on
> > following through.
> >
> > Gene Adams has been #1 on my list of motor guys from day one. What
> > great fun it must have been to chat with him.
> >
> > Best of luck with the survey. Sounds like you're doing a pretty neat
> > thing.
> >
> > Take care-
============================
NEXT MESSAGE
============================
From: "Doug Peterson"
To:
Subject: email
Date sent: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:38:23 -0800
Send reply to: afnd@libcom.com
Hi Stu, Hope you got the photo of Ol' #2. If you have anymore questions
you can email me directly at rayjct75@msn.com. I like your website. It
ought to be really helpful in making the most folks happy. Thanx,
Doug Peterson......Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
http://explorer.msn.com
============================
NEXT MESSAGE
============================
From: "Stu Sandhaus"
To: afnd@libcom.com
Date sent: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:35:53 -0500
Subject: The loyal opposition
Priority: normal
Send reply to: afnd@libcom.com
Hi List,
I went to a website that is basically about NHRA's Comp
Eliminator....many of the 'hitters' of Comp hang out there. I stated our
case for AF/ND and got some comments, both pro and con.
Frank Aragona Jr makes the first objections.
I'll be making a response to Frank who is one of the heavy hitters
in Comp. He runs a neat little Subaru powered RED in G/ED
(Econo Dragster) and is the current record holder in the class. It is a
well engineered car that he and his Dad have put a lot of effort
into....and has been widely publicized. Interestingly enough, the class
that he is in is very much a highly specific one in that (according to
NHRA's rulebook) it is for: "6.00 or more pounds per cubic inch, inline or
opposed 6 cylinder engines, 4 valve only, 1,150 pound minimum. Anyway, he
is very much opposed to ANY new classes and will actively campaign against
them. He states his case and makes some good points...although I disagree
with the fundamentals of his logic. I'm sure others in Comp will share
his opinions. I personally think their desire to "keep things as they
are"....and they "aren't interested in fan support" are a bit
short-sighted. He (and they) aren't taking into consideration the appeal
that Nitro will bring to the eliminator overall. I'm sure he is a fine
racer and is being a gentleman about stating his opinions....and I guess
when it's all said and done that we will have to agree to disagree. My
only concern is that, when we start to submit our letters of appeal, that
NHRA will use the objections from a small handful of current competitors
as 'fuel' to turn down our request. Nothing we can do about that....just
take our best shot and let the chips fall where they may. Also, read the
other comments there too as we have our share of supporters too. Check it
all out at:
http://members3.boardhost.com/CompForum/
See:
"AF/ND" and "Sorry Stu"
Stu
============================
NEXT MESSAGE
============================
From: "Pace, David"
To: "'afnd@libcom.com'"
Subject: RE: "aren't interested in fan support"
Date sent: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:32:43 -0600
Send reply to: afnd@libcom.com
I agree David, and if you read some of the other posts on the site, some
of his fellow comp racers accuse him of objecting to competition. I'm not
up to speed on handicap racing and have never really liked it, but I think
the index would take care of itself pretty quickly. Nitro dragsters
aren't set up for brake light racing. Not only is it unsafe, it misses
the whole point of running one of these cars. I would think that Injected
nitro racers will tend to run all out on every pass. The other HUGE point
this guy is overlooking is that a guy who wants to run a jr.FUELer isn't
interested in "existing classes", he's interested in jr. FUELers.
David Pace
-----Original Message-----
From: David Ray [mailto:daveray@airmail.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 5:14 PM
To: afnd@libcom.com
Subject: Re:"aren't interested in fan support"
When a group of individual states that they "aren't interested in fan
support", then that person can forget about organized drag racing, it will
go away.
Nitro is not the issue in regard to this specific "objection", it is
competition.
David Ray
============================
NEXT MESSAGE
============================
From: "draglist"
To:
Subject: Re: Troy Cagle
Date sent: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 19:02:17 -0500
Organization: www.draglist.com
Send reply to: afnd@libcom.com
Hi Troy. Great to have you up here. bp
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu Sandhaus"
To:
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 6:42 PM
Subject: Troy Cagle
> Hi List,
>
> A warm welcome to Troy Cagle....thanks for joining us Troy!!
>
> Stu
============================
NEXT MESSAGE
============================
From: "Pace, David"
To: "'afnd@libcom.com'"
Subject: Drag City Jr. Fuel Rules
Date sent: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:35:04 -0600
Send reply to: afnd@libcom.com
HI, list.
Drag City is starting a REAL jr. fuel class. They have a great website
with the rules posted; also a discussion board for your opinions. As
usual, there are some differences of opinion, but it looks like these guys
are really gonna do this thing. I've posted my opinion of a couple of
their proposed rules on their site, and I've also posted some opinions on
Header Flames. If you're interested, check out the Drag City thing and
air your opinions.
David Pace
============================
NEXT MESSAGE
============================
From: "David Ray"
To:
Subject: Re: Drag City Jr. Fuel Rules
Date sent: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:27:03 -0800
Organization: A.T.T.B., Inc.
Send reply to: afnd@libcom.com
I didn't see where the rules excluded high-gear only (my car is), it only
stated which transmission was legal. But since the subject came up, what
is the objection to the Lenco 2 speed and clutch. Last thing is, what's
this fascination of banning aluminum blocks? An aluminum block offers no
performance advantage per-say. Sure they cost more an not all racers will
be able to afford them. They are SAFER. I would think during a two year
period, a racer might spend as much on iron blocks, and machine work, as
they would on one aluminum block. Obviously they will give extended life
to internal reciprocating parts.
David Ray
============================
NEXT MESSAGE
============================
From: "Stu Sandhaus"
To: afnd@libcom.com
Date sent: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:39:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Drag City Jr. Fuel Rules
Priority: normal
Send reply to: afnd@libcom.com
Hi Dave and list,
I've exchanged a few emails with Andy Marocco of drag city about
his Jr/Fuel class. He feels they have thought it out very
carefully....the primary goal being to have a class that is cheap to build
for...he terms it an "entry level" Nitro class. He is building a
"prototype" car for the class and feels it can be produced from scratch
for under $25,000. He also believes it can run 6.90s (I think that's a
bit optimistic - but that's not all that important).
I tend to agree with Dave as far as the block and tranny rules are
concerned (Andy's rules are PowerGlides only - and building my
A/ND has shown me there is nothing cheap about PowerGlides!!)
Andy has also limited the class to 180" wheelbase. I've
suggested to him that he make a few changes to open the class
up a little bit....(allow any 2 speed combo, etc - for
reliability/durability...cheaper in the long run...same with the
blocks). I also suggested he make the chassis rules same as
NHRA A/ND - GG Jr/Fuel that way cars that are currently running
A/ND can just swap in a motor to fit his rules and go Nitro
racing....but Andy seems to be pretty determined to stick by his
rules as originally proposed.
Putting the relatively minor differences aside however, it's great to see
the injected Nitro FED concept being promoted. While I personally would
like to see the AF/ND class as we've been discussing it, my main goal is
to run a Nitro FED, so I'd run Andy's class (if it's all there is). The
reality of it is (in my opinion) that If Andy actually makes this happen,
I think it'll be a class at his strip only...and would take a quite a
while to spread beyond the west coast (if ever). I seriously doubt if NHRA
would accept a proposal for an "entry level" Nitro class in their Comp
eliminator...and NHRA acceptance is the only way the cars would be built
and raced beyond a few strips on the west coast.
Having said that, I think it would be a fun class!!...and I've offered
Andy any help I can give. While I'm going to continue at full speed to
promote our AF/ND concept, I think what Andy is doing is great!!!...if it
flies, it'll be even more reason for NHRA to take a closer look at the
concept.
I have a link to his rules for the class on the afnd.net website - click
on, " DRAG-CITY'S JR/FUEL"
Stu
============================
NEXT MESSAGE
============================
From: Stu Sandhaus
To: afnd@libcom.com
Subject: Welcome
Date sent: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 15:13:18 -0500
Send reply to: stu19@libcom.com
Hi List,
Wanted to welcome our newest subscriber to the list, Buzz
Baylis...thanks for joining us Buzz. I know things have been pretty quiet
as of late, but I haven't forgotten or dropped this project!! I have been
a bit busy with a few other things, but still plan on having the letter to
NHRA composed and sent sometime within the next few weeks. I'm also going
to have a sort of E-petition on the website that will be similar to the
letter to NHRA, but will be able to be cyber-signed right from the
website...then I'll print it and send it to NHRA. It won't have the
impact of an individual letter, but it should get a lot of response from
those who may be interested but aren't into taking the time to compose and
send a letter of their own. That's all for now.
Stu
============================
NEXT MESSAGE
============================
============================
NEXT MESSAGE
============================
============================
NEXT MESSAGE
============================
============================
NEXT MESSAGE
============================
============================
NEXT MESSAGE
============================